Serious question, Shōgun fans: Whenever someone suggests to Toranaga (Hiroyuki Sanada) that he should be Shōgun and he bluntly retorts back he has no desire to be Shōgun, do you honestly believe him? After all, the FX show is freaking called Shōgun!!! Someone’s gotta become the Shōgun eventually, right?

Furthermore, we’ve been told since Shōgun Episode 1 “Anjin,” that in Japanese culture, every man and woman has “three hearts.” There’s one to show the world, one to only reveal to friends, and a secret, hidden third heart that no one ever sees. Even though Toranaga might insist to everyone around him he has no desire to be Shōgun, logic suggests that it might yet be his secret most desire.

Decider put this theory to the test by asking the man himself, Shōgun star and executive producer Hiroyuki Sanada if Toranaga is being earnest when he says he doesn’t want to be Shōgun, or if it’s a situation like Kristen Wiig’s “Don’t Make Me Sing” Saturday Night Live character…and he really does want to be Shōgun.

“If it was possible to make a peaceful era without a Shōgun title,” Sanada said to Decider during an interview at Winter 2024 TCA, explaining that ushering in an era of peace was far more important to Toranaga than having the title of Shōgun. “If somebody else took that part, he [wouldn’t] care.” he said.

“Like the title of producer for me. If I didn’t have a title, we couldn’t make it authentic as much as possible. So maybe finally for him, the Shōgun title became important and necessary.”

Which means that Toranaga isn’t bluffing when he says he wants peace more than power. It just so happens that the only path Toranaga can see to peace is one where he has to fight for power.

Toranaga is inspired by Tokugawa Ieyasu, a key figure in Japanese history, who — SPOILERS FOR HISTORY — eventually comes to power as Shōgun, kicking off an unparalleled era of peace and prosperity for Japan. Coincidentally, Sanada has experience playing Ieyasu in Japan.

“Yeah, he’s one of the heroes of that era,” Sanada told Decider. “Most people love that character.”

In fact, Sanada revealed that it was Ieyasu’s specific brand of heroism that convinced him to play Toranaga in Shōgun.

“Toranaga’s model, Ieyasu, stopped the war period and then created a peaceful era for about 260 years,” Sanada said. “That’s a big thing. That’s why he became a hero in Japan. So we need to show this story, his life to the world.”

Of course, Sanada isn’t playing Tokugawa Ieyasu. He’s playing a highly fictional version of the historic figure, Toranaga. Those subtle changes also lured him to the role as well.

“This script has great characters and the drama and then every detail is so deep and delicate,” Sanada said. “He has a lot of things to think and strategize — family, other samurai — so many things.

Sanada revealed that in order to capture the intensity lurking beneath Toranaga’s serene surface, he made the decision to not show too much technique.

“Just simple is best, I thought. So I just used to my instinct and then followed the script,” Sanada said.